“We men are determined, nay, are we not pledged, to destroy this monster? But it is no part for a woman.”
They seem to not want Mina involved in anyway, but this doesn’t work out as Dracula has been coming into contact with her during the night, drinking her blood and even making her drink his blood in Chapter 21.
Do you think there might have been a different outcome had the men allowed Mina to stay involved in their efforts? How do you think gender roles played a part in the events of these chapter? Do you think Mina may end up playing a major role in defeating Dracula and if so how? (Robert F.)
In this section there is a lot of exclusion of the female characters for what the male characters describe as a man's duty/work or as not appropriate for women to take part in. How do the roles of females in the other novels we've read differ from Dracula? How do you think this view of women effects the vampire narrative? (Jill G)
When Van Helsing arrives at the asylum, he compliments Mina's organization of Seward's diaries and letters but expresses his hopes that she won't have to partake in the men's future duty of finding Dracula. He notes that it is, "no part for a woman," (Stoker 274). Later in the chapter, in one of Mina's journal entries, while she and Van Helsing are conversing he says, "We are men, and are able to bear; but you must be our star and our hope, and we shall act all the more free that you are not in the danger, such as we are," (Stoker 281). We have previously talked about the female sexuality in the vampire novel, as well as the idea of the "new woman." Despite Mina's intelligence and knowledge on the subject of vampires, she is still not allowed to partake in finding and destroying Dracula. Do you think this is because the characters are genuinely concerned for Mina's safety? Or could it be due to the fact that she is a woman and assumed that she cannot handle herself? Further, how has female vs. male been relevant in the novel thus far, as well as our other readings throughout the semester? (Rhiannon H.)
Lots of things happen in chapter 21. Jonathan and Mina encounter the Count from a mist. After the mist formed into a man, Dracula casts a sleeping spell on Jonathan. He then turns his attention towards Mina and forces her to become a slave to him.
"With his left hand he held both Mrs Harker's hands, keeping them away with her arms at full tension; his right hand gripped her by the back of the neck, forcing her face down on his bosom. Her white nightdress was smeared with blood, and a thin stream trickled down the man's bare breast, which was shown by his torn open dress." , Mina is drinking Dracula's blood thus complete the slave like process that Dracula has put forth .
What is significant of this quote? Does this quote mean Mina is a vampire? If so, could that be a reason why Dracula made Mina as a slave instead of killing her? If not, what could be some other reasons he made Mina as a slave? (Sang H.)
In this batch of chapters in Dracula, we read much more about Renfield and his death caused by the Count. We do not know much about Renfield's origin or how he became to be "zoophagous", although we do know that he is a patient of John Seward's before Dracula even arrives in London where he starts his reign of terror. From a few of the outbursts of Renfield, we know that Renfield is aware of Dracula's presence before Van Helsing and the others come to the conclusion that Dracula is a vampire. Then from these latest chapters, we learn that Dracula makes an offer to Renfield to become a subject under Dracula, which at first accepts, but when he figures Dracula has fed on Mina, he rebukes Dracula's offer.
I wonder how exactly did Renfield know of Dracula or how did Dracula know of Renfield. And why in the end of things did Renfield choose Mina's well-being over being a servant of Dracula, where he would get all the life that he would desire. (Tony J)
As previous accounts have shown, Stoker uses Dracula to provide commentary on the Victorian ideals of gender. Recurrent themes have been maternalism and purity of the female, with power and control being upheld by man. Keeping such ideals in mind, how does the scene of Mina drinking the blood from Dracula’s chest, while Jonathon lays helplessly unconscious, play on Victorian notions of gender? What does Dracula gain from such a manipulation, and do you think Stoker uses this scene to critique Victorian gender roles? How?
As previous accounts have shown, Stoker uses Dracula to provide commentary on the Victorian ideals of gender. Recurrent themes have been maternalism and purity of the female, with power and control being upheld by man. Keeping such ideals in mind, how does the scene of Mina drinking the blood from Dracula’s chest, while Jonathon lays helplessly unconscious, play on Victorian notions of gender? What does Dracula gain from such a manipulation, and do you think Stoker uses this scene to critique Victorian gender roles? How?
Throughout Dracula, there has been numerous analogies made between Dracula and animals. One example was when Van Helsing said "One lesson, too, we have learned, if it be allowable to argue a particulari that the brute beasts which are to the Count's command are yet themselves amenable to his spiritual power; for look, these rats that would come to his call, just as from his castle top he summon the wolves..." (Stoker 292-293). In what ways do animals depict the vampiric nature of Dracula? Also, does Dracula's controlling relationship over animals symbolize the relationship he has with humans? (Musa M)
I think gender roles did play a role in the happenings of these chapters. I think Dracula targets weak subjects. True, in the early chapters he targeted Jonathon who is a male, but he isolated him from the rest of the world to make him helpless and weak. I think Dracula continued to target weak subjects that seemed helpless, like Jonathon was. The book makes it seem like the women are a little naive and cannot take care of themselves, in my opinion. For example when Lucy is being attacked at night by Dracula, her mother removed the bad smelling garlic flowers and she was attacked again. I think Dracula then targeted Mina because although she was knowledgeable about him, she was defenseless against him because she wasn't involved with the men's project of trying to kill him.
ReplyDeleteI think there would absolutely be a different outcome had Mina been involved in the men's plans to destroy Dracula. I think we can see clearly from Dracula, Lost Souls? and I Am Legend, how different things can be for the female characters depending on how involved the male characters allow them to be. For example, in Lost Souls? both female characters were subject to the allure of the vampires which indirectly ended their lives. Had these women been informed of the consequences of getting involved with vampires, perhaps both would have lived. In Dracula, the females are taken advantage of by Dracula because of the men's decision that dealing with vampires is a man's job. Mina's exclusion makes her vulnerable and therefore leaves her as a perfect target for Dracula. I think if the men allowed her to help and therefore gave her the opportunity to gain the knowledge she needs to protect herself from Dracula, then perhaps she could play a role in his destruction.
ReplyDeleteI think it's also important to point out that in I Am Legend, the female character ends up being a strong women that in the end defeats Neville. I think that it is because of the fact that she was not treated similarly to Mina, but a part of the force to defeat Neville and start a new colony, that she was able to survive.
Quite a few of the co-leaders mentioned about the gender role in Dracula regarding the Victorian era. I think Mina drinking blood from Dracula could be interpreted in different ways. Most defnitely it shows the females being submissive to males. We should look closely to the scence for more information. For this scene, Dracula could be seen as a male who has more power and capabilities than Jonathon. During the Victorian era, women were not able to work, so in order for them to live prosperous life, they had to find men who could bring the food on the table. I could be wrong, but it seems that this kind of mentality is showing in the scene which represents the Victorian era.
ReplyDeleteGender roles are definitely at play a role in this section. What I find interesting is that Mina is painted in the beginning to be the ideal form of the "new woman"; she's independent, without sacrificing her care of the home and her husband. Her and Lucy are pitted against each other, Lucy coming out as the "immoral" one who is seduced by the count while MIna remains pure until she marries her husband. But then in this section Stoker takes that back! He turns Mina into not only the only woman left in the story, but the an INTEGRAL part of the plan to defeat Dracula. The men try to cut her out, and the count only makes her more important. It's almost a complete reversal of what Stoker portrayed in the beginning of the novel. It makes this book so much more revolutionary.
ReplyDeletePersonally, Renfield is my favorite character. What I love most about him is the way that he manages to regain his sanity towards his death. While Mina is convinced the first time Dracula comes to her she is dreaming (even though she is seeing many of the images Lucy told her SHE saw), Renfield at one point corrects himself, and says that he KNOWS he wasn't dreaming. He's able to see past all of Dracula's mind games in order to share key information with the "Guardians of light". I think that Stoker makes both the typically seen as "submissive characters" (the woman and the mad man) end up being the most important sources of information in how to kill Dracula without being confounded by his mind games.
There's a lot of talk in this novel about the ideal roles of men and women. Men are supposed to be strong, brave, and decisive, and women are supposed to be sweet, pure, and innocent. In fact; gender role has a huge role in these chapters. I think the most significant sense is when Mina is drinking Dracula’s blood. She is both incredibly feminine and described as having a "man's brain." In my opinion, Mina is representing the New Woman. However, she has now been horribly violated. In drinking his blood, Mina has been polluted by the vampire. I think Stoker tried to criticize the Victorian gender roles by telling readers that Mina, the New Woman, is infected and hopeless while Mina could be helpful in destroying Dracula.
ReplyDeleteSang K. Hwang
I think Mina drinking from Dracula's chest was the best example of how reversed the engrained roles of men and women was in the Victorian era. Generally, women are seen as pulling someone close to their chest and giving life. In this, we see Dracula pulling Mina to his chest and taking away her life. This is also interesting, because Mina has a very strong personality and not exactly the typical conservative Victorian woman, she doesn't just succumb to men. As Sangkyu said Mina could represent the "New Woman" and I agree with that. Here, we see her being challenged and under Dracula's, a man's, control. All of this disorganizes the roles that were present in Victorian society.
ReplyDeleteI think the control that Dracula has over animals further depicts his animalistic side as a vampire. Although vampires appear to look like humans, talk like humans, and act like humans, they still have an animalistic side that makes them hunt and feed like animals. In many legends and folklore they are considered more animal-like than human like. I think that Stoker is showing that Dracula still has these animalistic features by having him control fellow animals around him. Since vampires are “human-like animals” in a sense, Stoker is showing that they can have a control over both humans and animals. Because of their relationship to each species, vampires are able to control both humans and animals alike through their powers.
ReplyDeleteI think that the types of animals that are controlled by Dracula also depict the nature of Dracula. As shown throughout the story wolves are one of the main animals Dracula summons. I think this symbolizes vampires perfectly because wolves are known for traveling in packs at night. They are very quick and smart creatures, since they carefully plan their attack then strike as a group. They can at times be reserved and admired and at other times be feared and act on instinct. Dracula himself mentions something about wolves on page 12 “"Listen to them, the children of the night. What music they make! ... Ah, sir, you dwellers in the city cannot enter into the feelings of the hunter." Dracula senses a close connection to the wolves because he himself is a hunter.
I think that Dracula’s controlling relationship with the animals does parallel his relationship with humans. He can control both of these species with his powers and overpower them as well. He has the strength and quickness of an animal with the intelligence and charm of a human. With these traits he is able to maintain relationships with both and control them so that he gets the results he wants out of them.
I don't think Mina is a vampire, but I do think that is a very interesting quote. It reminds me of how we talked about the final killing of Lucy as reminiscent of a sexual penetration. This scene with Mina and Dracula almost seemed like a perversion of motherhood. There was a sort of creepy breastfeeding going on here with the roles reversed. Mina should be doing this to her own child, however she's being forced to feed off of another man while her husband sleeps. I'm not entirely sure why Dracula goes after Mina in a way that's very different than his previous victims. Just for the plot, I suppose.
ReplyDelete-Rick R
I think a lot of things could have changed had the men allowed Mina to help out. While a theme in the novel seems to be the fact that the men see women as weak and incapable of taking care of themselves let alone be able to help out, I think in this case Mina could have done more harm than good against the Count. First of all it does not make sense for the men to isolate Mina as it just puts her in a more vulnerable position to be attacked. This along with the fact that the Count seems to have a weak spot towards women could have made her a valuable asset. Unfortunately because of the stereotypical gender roles that the characters are forced to follow, it makes it hard to imagine Mina as being much help. In order to follow the gender roles it would mean that Mina should just sit and let the others do the work. I hope that in the end the men realize what an asset Mina could be against the Count and let her contribute more than she has so far.
ReplyDeleteIt does not appear that there would have been any difference had the men allowed Mina to be involved in Lucy’s killing. I think if anything this only reinforced Mina’s purity in accordance with traditional Victorian gender roles, making it that much more shocking when these roles are switched in chapter 21. In this scene the gender roles seem to be completely reversed as Dracula forces Mina to feed on his blood. Seward writes that the act “had a terrible resemblance to a child forcing a kitten’s nose into a saucer of milk to compel it to drink”(322). This description invokes imagery that is often associated with breast feeding a baby. However, Mina, a woman, is the one feeding from Dracula’s chest and it seems like the whole process has been corrupted with milk being replaced by blood. Meanwhile Jonathan Harker is rendered helpless on the bed. To me this seems like yet another corruption of traditional concepts of femininity.
ReplyDeleteDracula seems to represent all that is corrupt with society the scar on his forehead seems to allude to the Biblical figure of Cain. In the Bible, God gave Cain a scar on his forehead to mark him as tainted and a murderer, after he killed his brother, Abel. Mina also acquires this mark when Van Helsing place a piece of sanctified bread on Mina’s forehead, Mina immediately screams “‘Unclean! Unclean! Even the Almighty shuns my polluted flesh! I must bear this mark of shame upon my forehead until the Judgment Day”(324). Again there are strong religious connotations in relation with the feeding scene, and the Eucharist. This seems to suggest a corruption of Christian values, during the Eucharist Christians drink the “blood” of Christ and eat his “body”, in the feeding scene these are replaced by Dracula’s blood and flesh. It is interesting to note that Dracula in Romanian is “son of the devil.” This further demonstrates that Dracula to some extent embodies all that is evil in modern society. Unlike Dracula, Mina does not “sin” of her own free will. However, if Dracula can be equated to the devil, Mina can be equated to Eve in this scene. All of these religious allusions might be Stoker’s way of suggesting that there is something almost inherently evil about women, at the very least, that they are easily corrupted.
From what I have read thus far, I do not think Mina will play a big role in defeating Dracula, because in this novel women seem to be treated like almost helpless beings, subject to the love and chivalry of men. Mina was easily corrupted by Dracula against her will despite having “a pure heart” and being the strongest female character in this novel. I think it will be men that will ultimately defeat Dracula and perhaps save Mina. Although Stoker does make some allusions to the changing role of women and their power in society, it seems like this is almost exclusively portrayed in a negative light, and that the work ultimately champions traditional gender roles.
(Alex I.)
I find it very ironic that the men in this novel tried so hard to keep Mina out of the dealings with Dracula, and yet this only left her completely exposed to him and literally in his grasp. I do see how dealing with all those rats and the actual fight the men had with Dracula could be more of a problem with Mina present, but she could have been included in some other way that was not as physically demanding. It is interesting that Van Helsing mentions to Mina that finding Dracula has “no part for a woman” because without her help and what he called a “man’s brain” they probably would not have been able to come together and start the search for Dracula. I do not think any of the men would have volunteered to type out all of Dr. Seward’s phonograph journal entries and two other journals, as well as make another copy of everything. Even though Mina was excluded later, her part in finding Dracula is probably the most significant.
ReplyDeleteKim K.
In answer to Jill’s question, within Dracula there is an idea established of it being the duty of man to defeat the vampire. This theme carries on through the various novels we have read thus far simply because most have centered almost exclusively on male characters, whether they are human or vampire. However, there is an interesting difference between this established idea and the roles provided within I Am Legend. Throughout this particular novel the reader follows as a singular man takes it upon himself to eradicate the vampire and possibly find a cure, or at least a complete understanding. By the end of the novel, focus shifts to that man actually becoming the vampire, with his defeat brought upon by a female character of the new society. I Am Legend therefore provides a new take on classic vampire fiction as it alters previously established gender and vampire norms set within Dracula.
ReplyDeleteSarah S.
My first thought was how these animals, rats and especially wolves are of a predatory nature to me-just like Dracula. When the rats were mentioned I could not help but think of this scene from a movie I watched where a rat was placed on a man's belly and a metal container placed over the rat and while heat was applied to the outside of the container. The rat ate through the man's skin. This scene from a movie I recalled reminded me of Dracula in that it caused me to rethink the whole predatory thing. I put myself in the mind of the rat, and how it would feel trapped, and so it did what it felt it had to do survive. Then I thought of Dracula and how consuming other's blood revitalizes him as Van Helsing states in chapter 18 of how "he cannot flourish without this diet". I began to rethink my use of the word "predator" for him. Then I got to thinking about the wolves. I thought of how just like the wolves are slave to Dracula how Dracula is slave to blood in a way, how he is slave to the sun light, how he is slave to garlic etc. Now while I would not call either the animals nor Dracula "prey" I might be hesitant to say they are one hundred percent predatory like my initial thought. I see a bit of Darwinism- as in only the strong survive. You kill or get killed. Dracula kills so he can stay alive, and the humans try to kill vampires so they can stay alive. That being said, I think the animal-Dracula relationship is symbolic of the human-Dracula relationship because I feel as though Dracula uses both, and controls both so that he himself can stay alive. (Akanimoh E)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think my response can answer Robert's or Jill's question.
ReplyDeleteI've think that when it comes to the issues of gender in this novel I remind myself what the time period is and what seems to be the typical expectation for women and men in vampire novels. When this book was published as well as when this story takes place was definitely during a time period where women were seen as ladies who shouldn't partake in anything that would involve getting their hands dirty, or involved doing something other than cooking or being at home tending to children. Also, I think that if Mina had started off showing strength then Dracula would not have been able to sneak in at night to drink her blood and have her drink his. Since that needed to happen for the plot in this story I think that is the main reason why women just don't hold very much power or aren't relied on by men to take care of difficult "dirty" tasks. (Micaela M.)
Gender has absolutely played a part here. And I think that the two first questions Rhiannon (Sorry if I misspelled it, didn't double check) are linked. For the men in the group to think that Mina's safety must be allowed for, they must first think she can't handle herself. Thus, the reasoning for the first answers the second.
ReplyDeleteFurther, there's a recurring theme of women as delicate creatures that need protection by nature, without regard to their intelligence, ability, etc. The way that the men put it is typically just a nicer, cop-out way of saying the same thing--Let the men handle it.
I think that the portrayal of women, and more particularly the portrayal of Mina in Dracula, and her role within the novel help to explain why Dr. Van Helsing is insistent that Mina stay out of the business of hunting down Dracula. Throughout the novel we are give the image of women as this dichotomy of being, especially in Mina's case. On the one hand, she is incredibly intelligent and independent. She has a job of her own, can read and write in shorthand, and has a rational mind that endears her to all she meets. On the other hand she is loved for her distinctly female qualities of maternity, fidelity, compassion, and conscience. The effect being that Mina is portrayed as sort of a rallying figure, the archetype of goodness. If this novel is all about the idea that an ancient evil has invaded the modern, good world then it makes sense that we would see representation of not only the evil (Dracula), but also the good (Mina).
ReplyDeleteBrandon W.
For Victorian literature, I believe Mina's act of drinking blood from Dracula's chest would be seen as a bit risque. As long as she is in the private sphere then I suppose it stays traditional to the morals represented in Victorian literature for women, who are supposed to clean, cook, and raise decent children, while the men go off into the city to work. However, so far Jonathan does not seem to fit the full picture of a man since he was easily made helpless by the three vampire women and also a prisoner to another man: Dracula. To state that Mina was solely using Dracula for her sustenance would seem more Victorian; also, we see this happening previously with Dracula providing the three vampire women with a baby for food.
ReplyDeleteAs the trend has gone, women have their place and while some have more liberties than others, mina being able to read and right, it does not make them equal mentally or physically. Mina, the perfect example of a woman prepared to face Dracula but the men do not agree, not even the extremely knowledgeable Van Helsing will let her in on the hunting of Dracula. This very ironic be it that Mina is actually the closest one to Van Helsing and it could be very tactical to let Mina more into the action. I feel that if they do not let Mina on in the action, they will not be successful thwarting Dracula, but as soon as the let her in, they will successfully slay Dracula. It's unbelievable that they make Mina such a well developed, independent woman and still do not even so much as consider how much Mina could help.
ReplyDeleteAustin C
In response to Sang H.’s question, I’d like to share that – personally – I did not come to think that Mina’s drinking of Dracula’s blood makes her vampire. Instead, given that Mina has been portrayed as an independent woman far from taking the roles of “traditional women” throughout the book, I find Sang H.’s quote contributes in depicting her in a completely new and reversed way. That is, with Mina drinking Dracula’s blood in a position where her mouth touches his bare breast, such description reminds the readers of breastfeeding; thus, with Dracula forcing Mina to be “breastfed”, Mina is represented to have changed: now – or at least in this very moment – she is babylike, submissive, and not independent. In other words, the provided quote serves in depicting the moment in which Mina fulfills the role “traditional women”, contradicting to her usual independent self. Perhaps, this quote can furthermore be interpreted as foreshadowing the vulnerability of Mina from Dracula. Noting that her protective husband is oblivious to what is happening to Mina and helpless due to the casted spell/sleeping, in addition to Mina having been “challenged” to become a submissive individual, I find this in exhibiting Dracula’s full control over Mina and thus the possibility of her to be further victimized by that of Dracula. Although all the men in the story attempted to protect Mina from fighting against the Dracula, she is now in control of Dracula.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sang's (and sort of Rhiannon's) questions, it seems to me that Dracula is exacting power over Mina not in a way of making her a slave to replace Renfield, but more of in a way that illustrates man's perceived power over woman. As Sang noted, the passage describes Mina's arms held "at tension," that she was "gripped" and "forced" to partake in consuming the Count's blood. She's forced, in a submissive position as a woman, to become a partner in a monstrous act. Renfield, rather, was controlled, in more of a slave-like position. Something about Mina's position is special, as she's a female with agency, yet still she's forced into it simply because she is a female.
ReplyDeleteTo address Rhiannon's question, it seems that the men simply haven't been able to fully believe a woman can be fully autonomous the whole novel. In this scene, as they stand before Mina's door, ready to come in her room by force if necessary, and Quincey questions, "May it not frighten her terribly? It is unusual to break into a lady's room!" (332-not broadview edition)
I mean, really, Quincey? At this point, you all know you're dealing with something monstrous--they even recall the way "poor Lucy" acted as they watch Dracula writhe and slink from the crucifixes and holy wafers--but you're still hung up on Mina being a little perturbed that you're breaking into her room? Why even let her have one, in this case? It seems that keeping the distance between 'gentlemen' and 'ladies' is of a little too much importance in this horror story. Perhaps this is a critique Stoker wishes to convey?